#AskGaryVee Episode 209: Landon Cassill, NASCAR Marketing & Paying NCAA Athletes

– Well in your world, in social media and
marketing taking your expertise and applying it
to my business model– – Yes.
– which is athlete, independent contractor because
I’m not represented by a players union.
– Yes. – I’m not presented
by the NFL or NBA. I’m a NASCAR driver but
essentially I’m responsible for my own brand. I’m responsible for
my own revenues– – And the revenue comes in
with the logos on the car? – Yep. – And then appearance fees.
– Yep. – And anything else? – Performance on the track. Now logos on the car improve
the performance on the track. – And vice versa?
– Absolutely. – Right. Chicken and egg game. – Exactly. – So the question is what
would I do if I were you? – How do we, how do
I create a better– – Platform? – platform, a value proposition
for corporate partners? – I 100% believe that you
should execute the DailyVee execution. I think there’s an enormous
amount of people who are watching right now. NASCAR is a humongous religion. I didn’t say sport. It’s a humongous,
humongous religion. – Amen. – And I believe that there are hundreds of thousands of people that would watch your
17 to 22 minute vlog. As a matter of fact, let’s,
you know, we haven’t really done this yet. This is a good opportunity to
do what I’m about to do, this. In the comment section on
Facebook and YouTube if you are what you call your guy’s
self Staphon, videographer? – [Staphon] Yeah.
– Great. If you’re an aspiring
videographer, sorry I mean I don’t
know everything. I know my thing. If you are aspiring and you’re
young and you’re a hustler and I would assume this would probably
make even more sense maybe this is not exactly how it ends up
happening but you love NASCAR. I would tell you I’m kinda
jumping to conclusions you might not want to human being
following you around 24 hours a day with a camera but I truly
believe that what we’re doing with DailyVee right now is very
much no different than what I did in 1996 by doing e-commerce. Or what I did by doing a
YouTube show back in 2006. That this television-like
content, vlogging and Casey and many other people
did it before I did. I think what the hard-core day in the life version of it though is quite powerful. The number one thing I would do. I truly believe that and it’s
funny that you’re sitting here. I would almost even use this
as an analogy but I’ll use a different one without you
sitting here but refers to where you sit in the NASCAR world. I think the 10th man on
an NBA team right now to execute this model
would fundamentally be one of the five
most popular players in the NBA in three years if he
had the right personality and was a good guy and had the
right, it’s just storytelling. The hell is Kim Kardashian?
Right? – Just storytelling. Yeah. – It’s a story of that world. Every reality TV star,
it’s just storytelling. And I think that’s
what you should do. I think it’s very
black and white. I’m very proud that
I’m creating a blueprint that I think is replicable. And I think that’s
what you should do. – I appreciate it. I love that. – I think it would
change your world. – I think you’re right. I think you’re right. I’ll double down on that. – And the biggest thing that you
need to figure out is is what access they have.
I assume a lot. I’ve been to Poconos. That’s where you’re going? – Yeah, yeah. Next weekend. – My father-in-law was the
marketing guy that did the Gillette Young Guns
years and years ago. People are filming
there all the time. As long as somebody can have the
right access and it’s the real stories, right? Everybody see
Sundays or Saturday. What about Tuesday? Stopping and driving
around the country. That’s the real stuff.
– Mhmmm. There’s a lot of content. – You’re going to double down?
– No I mean I– – I like doubling down. – No, I’ll double down on that
because that’s been on my mind. – You think he’s
very good at Snapchat. This is the first… – That was a huge hit. That was really successful and
just like you said I just told a story over the course of my
day where I’m saying I’ll double down on that is like you
said leave a comment, find me somehow. Let’s make this happen. – No, no. You’re gonna
have to do a little bit of work. – Well I’ll do work.
Yes, yes, yes. – No, no, it’s very easy. Actually we’ll do the work for
you somebody here on this team will send you the two links to
the Facebook and the YouTube and there are hopefully 30 to 50
people in the comments section saying me. I can afford there’s people now. I’m sure. I will follow you for free. DRock did it for
free for a while. I don’t know what. I can tell you for sure that if
you’re lucky enough that you’re a young kid hustler that’s
trying to get exposure for access to being
behind-the-scenes in NASCAR it’s going to change your
career outcome, I think it’s an absolute barter exchange. I’m not trying to get you guys
to do free work even though I do it all the time
and believe in it. I have no idea if you do have
the ability to pay something, travel costs, this that and
the the other thing but that’s exactly what I would do. And I would be so pumped to
watch SportsCenter in 17 months of the story of you that you did
this and to know it all started right here, right now. – You got it.
– No really. I fully hey ESPN I fully expect the first scene of the E 60 to start right here right now.
(laughter) Okay. India.

– Dana. – The first one (inaudible)
this question because I know you probably don’t have
as much background. – [Gary] Yes. – I applaud NASCAR for really
stepping up their social media game recently, in what areas do
you think they could improve or suggest on them to improve? – So what is your point of view
because you’re right I don’t have as much context. – I think it is– – What’s happening
with the top stars? Top 10 guys right now, how
are there rolling in social? Anybody in the top 10 crew? Not that you want to
call out or knock on. – I think they’re doing good. – Is it a conversation
with the driver? Do you hear people
talking about it? – Yeah, I mean in my opinion
the leader of the pack is Dale Jr which he’s– – I remember that
from Mountain Dew, we’re on Mountain Dew from four years ago I knew
it was in his world. – That falls in his lap because
NASCAR gravitates towards him. The fans love him.
– Course. – But what I appreciate about
Dale Jr is I feel like he’s got smart people around him that
have taken advantage of that and they have gotten him very well educated on
how to be on Twitter and getting into Instagram
and they’ve got radio show and podcast. And he’s doing a really,
really, really good job. – That’s awesome. – I feel like the challenges,
there’s probably a group of drivers that are just
from a generation that just don’t need to. They’ve made their living
racing cars for a long time. Their form of sponsor relations is appearances–
– Television commercial. – doing the same things
the last 20 years so for them to adapt to Snapchat and Twitter,
I mean they’re all on Twitter but it’s a matter of
what are you doing. – Who’s doing it? Is them?
Duh, duh, duh. – Yeah. – And what about
NASCAR as a whole? – I think NASCAR has taken a
very serious move at social media recently. Whether it’s like we talked
about the Snapchat. I took over their Snapchat. Their Snapchat story on the
race weekend is phenomenal. I would love to see more during
the week and see what else is going on. I would even love to see
in the NASCAR offices and things like that. – I honestly think that’s your
whitespace for your daily vlog that you’re about to do soon. – Yep.
– I can’t wait. I fully expect it to be
live within two weeks. – Yeah, absolutely. – There’s no reason to really. There’s plenty of
leads in there. – Just gotta get my wife’s
permission were good to go. – That’s fine. What is your wife’s name? – Caitlin.
– Caitlin, please.

– [Computer] Gary, India, Landon, I just had a quick question
what did you guys think about the NCAA and their policy
that restricts athletes from getting sponsorships. and money essentially. I know
it’s kind of a big issue for them. – It’s a real taboo issue. – [Computer] Well they kind of
have a right seeing that they’re on the road 24/7 and these
coaches get paid a bunch of money. – I mean look everybody’s got–
– [Computer] What you think about their ethics and what
can a business decision is that? Thank you very much
Gary, Landon, India. – Yeah, how are you going to
integrate that into the episode the video? You did it? – [Andy] Yeah.
– You had it. Talent. – [Andy] Soft copy of it. – Talent, man.
– Talent. So I think that, look I think is
a hotbed issue. I think plenty of people say
well they get their school paid for. Me personally, Gary, thinks
it’s complete horseshit. I think every college athlete
should be paid, period, end of story. I think the universities
exploit it aggressively. It feels very communistic. I’m not a fan of it. I think that the athletes should
be paid and that’s how I feel about it. Very simple.
Very, very binary. But I think the taboo issue. I have a lot of friends that get
mad at me when we drink a glass of wine on this issue but they
get their college paid for and this that and the other thing. To me it is just economics. They’re making
drillions of dollars on these kids performances. These kids are being treated
like professional athletes. These kids are
not going to class. These guys are practicing 40, the practice schedules of these professional athletes especially
at the tiers where the TV deals are men’s college basketball,
women’s college basketball, men’s college football, softball on ESPN now. They keep building
bigger and bigger schedules. They’re being treated like
professional athletes and they’re not being compensated
that way and an unbelievable majority of them never make
it to the professional level. And ever are able to cash in
on the dollars they dropped in university so I think
they should be paid. I’m pretty emotional about it
for them but it is what it is. There’s plenty of
things that upset me. You have any thoughts on that? – I don’t know. I don’t think I agree with
you as binary as– – Yeah.
– you describe it and it’s straightforward. But I think I could
easily be weighted that way. But I look at it as university is primary
number one needs to be a place of higher education. I didn’t go to college.
I wish I did. – Yep. – I’m fortunate that I get to
make my living that I’m actually making a living driving. – Yep. – But it concerns me like if
they set up a way to start paying football players the
effects of the 99% of them that don’t make it professionally and
what they did during their time in college when they were
making $50,000 a year playing professional college football
and not going to class because they were making their living. And now all of a
sudden they didn’t make it. You know, so I’m a little
worried some of the problem there. – The problem from my standpoint
that’s a romantic point of view because those same kids are
not going to class anyways. They’re not pumping out of the
University of Michigan and going on to have these illustrious
careers because of their education. First of all I have my own
problems of college to begin with, forget
professional athletes. Person that goes to Michigan and
leaves with a degree reality in today’s marketplace is
a whole ‘nother issue. We don’t have enough time for
this because I can get really emotional about this. – The thing that’s absolutely
dead on that you’re so right about is the cornerstone of the
whole argument is they’re making hand over fist. – Guys the SEC
contract with ESPN, these rules were implemented in a time when these
universities were not making anywhere close to these dollars. It’s become, (speaking Russian)
it’s a great Russian saying. It’s very basic. It’s like everything is
great when it’s balanced. From 1961 the amount of money
colleges were making on these athletes were more in the universe karma balance fairness. Today? You have a star player, do
you know how many Johnny Manzel Texas A&M jerseys were sold? I mean forget it. Anyway. – [India] I thought this
question was really cute

– Aside from teaching money and
marketing tricks do you have any regarding love? Isn’t that cute? – Yeah, it’s adorable. – My advice on love is very
similar to my advice on, I actually think
my business advice is actually my life advice. If you really unwind it. I think 51/49 really matters
and that’s more relationship now than love. I think that, I always say
the magic is in the gray. I think that’s how love is. It is not calculated. It’s just going to happen in a lot of times in a lot of ways. I actually think all the advice
I give actually executes to a love genre. I think the relationship
part’s more interesting to me. The 51/49, the listening and
counterpunching, a lot of those things the way I think
about customer and business relationships are very much the
way I think of the relationships in general. That’s how I’ve rolled. As far as the falling in love
part, the serendipity, it’s very similar to the things I think
about business where you can’t control what you can’t control
and don’t be crippled by it. That would probably
my biggest advice. Got any love
advice married man? – Yeah. – How long have
you been married? – Going on four years. – That’s awesome.
– Yeah. You want someone
that’ll just complement, that’s an addition to you. My wife is
everything that I lack. I’m being so romantic but
it’s in so many ways it is the cliché that
everybody says it is. I look at my wife and she’s
capable of so many things that I am not capable of that
why I need her in my life. – Sure. I married my mom. – [India] Yeah.
– You married your mom? – Yeah, my wife and my mom have
a lot, a lot of similarities other than my wife is very
organized and structured and my mom’s not. Other than that a lot of
their personalities are similar. – [India] Interesting.
– Yeah. – [India] They say a lot of
guys end up doing that, marrying their mom. – I think the mom is the North
Star for guys they go either hard core to the
left or the right. My dad married the anti-mom. – [India] Maybe it’s
again a generational thing. Maybe it skips.
– It skips. Alright, let’s go India.

From GR, I don’t
know his real name. How do you feel that social
media has shaped NASCAR is a good or bad as a driver or
good or bad as a fan also? – So our entire business
model is supported by corporate support.
– As is almost everybody’s. – Yeah, I guess that’s true. So you want to show
your personality but you can’t, it’s easy to second-guess your
personality if what if I have a sponsor that isn’t
going to like this. – To your point,
it’s even further. Football players shows his full personality in the contract duh, duh, duh. – Where I say our whole business
model is supported by corporate support is because it takes
that to run the NASCAR team. We can’t survive just
off the prize money. We have to have corporate
support or somebody has underwrite the program. – Yeah. Is there in NASCAR is there
some billionaires that have underwriting some programs? – Oh yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. There’s plenty of them. And my team is, our car owner is a racer. He’s not making
money off our race team. – He loves it.
– He’s a racer. – He loves the game. – And so we search hard
for sponsors because it helps our team and because we’ve got a passion
for the sport we want to grow the sport want to grow our
partners but at the end of the day my car owner, he steps up. – At what percentage is it the
25% and down, actually in the bottom third of like
financial teams– – Yep. – How much time do you think the
driver and the core two or three top people spend
on the business part of hustling for sponsors? What percentage of time do you
spend on thinking about, trying to secure doing
appearance, like hustling? – Man, I mean I spend
every day thinking about it. I struggle it’s hard
to apply it sometimes. I don’t do enough,
I think too much. I probably don’t do enough. I travel Thursday to Sunday. By the time I’m can sit down in
my office can actually act on thoughts and can do things I’m
on a plane and heading to the racetrack where I have
to focus on the racecar. – Right. – There’s definitely a struggle of balancing and
executing, right. That’s where we talk about
content generation and things like that. Man, for me the struggle
isn’t I guess what content do I create, it’s how
do I execute it? – When a driver wins a big race
that’s a bottom 20% financial, like how rare is that? – It’s pretty rare but NASCAR
is really, they’re changing the rules in terms of how the cars
are built to help accommodate– – More parity?
– More parity because– – It’s the greatest
thing the NFL did. – Yeah, absolutely.
It’s hard. People don’t realize how
much goes into the racecar. And how many engineers it
takes and how many what adding, finding a secret bend in your
body that adds 50 pounds of down force, I can feel that. That’s this right here.
– Yeah. – Pushing down on your car. I can feel that in the
car, it makes me go faster. Some of the big teams they’re
just so much capable of finding five, six, seven, eight,
nine, ten more of those things. So people don’t realize that
lack of parity is something that NASCAR’s very aware of that
they’re trying to improve and that’s what helps
teams like mine. At the end of the
day (inaudible). – Do you have a
sponsorship person on your team? – Yeah, oh yeah. We’ve got a
marketing staff, yep. – Very cool. Interesting stuff.