Gary, I wanna say thank you so much. My name is Vlad. I run a restaurant in Astoria, Queens called New York Dog House.
– [Gary] Okay. It’s a trademark spot so
there’s ways of growing. I’ve been doing that
for three years. Funny that, every time I reach a hurdle I wake up and you answer it somehow. So, I really appreciate
that you’re doing that so, every day you’ve
kind of helped me grow helped our business grow and what I’m having problem
right now is that we’re growing and each part of the restaurant the kitchen, the floor,
the bartending crew they become our gang, they
all love the projects so much so every time I brought
somebody new to the group, they start hazing them (mumbling) – This is gonna be a funny fucking show. There is no India in this. go ahead, keep going. So, you’ve gotta hazing
restaurant, keep going. – [Vlad] It’s starting to sound like,
“Yo guys, this is Alfredo He is joining our crew,
teach him what you know and let’s grow, yes I wanna grow.” So, instead of helping me you know, grow they start fucking shit up for him. – Yep
– [Vlad] He’s like “Yo, Vlad. What’s going on? They don’t
like me what the fuck is going? What am I doing wrong?” – [Gary] Yeah. – And you know the crew that
I have now they’re really good but I’m really good on vibes.
I’m really big on personality. – Let me, let me jump in on right here because Vlad, we need
more than one question answered on the show. – [Vlad] I told you it was
going to be long. – You know, and I think,
I referenced this either in a keynote or recently or maybe in one of the shows where I talked about one of the things that really when I
started VaynerMedia. I was obsessed with this issue,
because it was something that was a huge problem
at Wine Library. At Wine library we also grew very quickly. Grew from like 10 to 150 people and the biggest problem I had, was I don’t know if they haze them. They weren’t hazing them, they were just making
their judgment immediately. Llike literally every employee for like two years within two days. Everybody in the company was like Oh, Ricky McGee sucks crap right like like and by the way, this was
the company at Wine Library that had no training, no on-boarding. Like literally showed up
and you are like go, right. And then you had, right, so? – [Vlad] Very easy going, but professional courtesy, respect
but you bring your own style to it. – Vlad, the way I fixed
that at Wine Library was I sat down, everybody individually when I got to place, where was
not palpable to me anymore. One by one, and I told
them right to their face. That they, they were part of the solution of fixing my issue. They weren’t to go be there. And that was probably the first time, I gave any of them negative feedback, because we were growing,
everything was great, they’re making more money
and everything was great. And I told them, right to their face and then, Vlad, and
this is the tricky one, then I fired a couple of them. – Right in the mouth. I feel, I kinda have to do, even though I love what you did do. I think you just said it,
they are not part of solution. Vlad fire someone. (laughter) That’s it Vlad,
Vlad no more mic. I have got to answer some
questions. I love you, no more. Vlad you’re out, next. Let’s clap it up for Vlad. Just fire someone Vlad, Jesus. All right, let’s keep it going.

a wrap-up session, but we’re
gonna make a unique thing. Why this book, and more importantly, you have such a mix of people that listen and watch my show, right? You’ve got a ton of people in startup, entrepreneurial culture,
you know, obviously cause of the agency,
there’s a plenty amount of executives in Fortune
500s, bloggers, media types. When you look at this book, and you guys put your
self-awareness against this book, who benefits the most? Of course, that’s like wanting
the book to be successful. We want everybody, and I’d
like, it would mean a lot to me to support these guys, I want you on it, but going down the pecking order, who do you think, or how
do the individual segments that could read this book, what
do you see them benefitting from what angles? – I mean, what we wanted to
do, we wanted to create an MBA in a book, because you
can start off in business, and you can get very good at one thing, and there’s something in your
head that’s saying to you, I wish I had the 360 mindset, you know, that’s sort of what an MBA,
I’ve got one, what it gives you. It sort of gives you the CEO’s mindset, you sort of see all
the different functions working together, and we looked around, and that book didn’t exist. It’s for people who didn’t have an MBA who just wanted one but
didn’t wanna give up two years of their life to go get one. – Or the gadrillion dollars, or the debt. – Right, the flexibility, everything. – Well, I mean, anybody
who’s managing anyone, a small team of five
people or a team of 500, can use the tools that are in here to build a team.
– So, management. – No, no, no, that’s one level. – I know, but that, but
it’s an interesting insight that that’s where you went
first, but I’m intrigued by it. – Well, I– – He always goes there first (laughs)
because he– – I believe in it so
much, so I’m into it too. – But I’m talking about
managing small groups as well. – I get it. – And what we wanted to
do is create an atmosphere in a company that’s got some
of the buzz you’ve got here, across every company. So, building a wow team,
and having employees know how to play on a wow team is
a critical part of this story. – One last thing is that there’s
a whole section of the book on your career, and it’s about, you know, what should I do with my life, how do I get out of a career stall, and how do you become an entrepreneur, what does it really take? There’s all, a lot of the book is about winning strategically,
smiting your competition, building a great team, but look frankly, people spend a lot of brain time thinking about their own careers and how they get to be where – Stuck. – Where they’re really
fulfilled and they’re doing what they wanna do, so the whole, there’s a chunk of the book about that. – Do you believe, on a real
quick question, do you believe, by the way, you guys
look great in this photo. Do you believe, how many photos, how long did this photo shoot take? – Long time for me, not for her.
– Longer than we’d have liked. – To get me on there to look
like that was real work. – I can imagine. (they laugh) Do you believe that a top 25, 50 business school MBA in April 2015, is as
valuable in the marketplace as it was, five, 10, and 25 years ago. – Go back to top 10. – Okay, top 10, yes. – Absolutely. – How about 11 to 25? – It starts to slide pretty quickly. At the top 10, the line is out the door with McKinsey, with
Booz, with everybody else lined up, waiting to get in. So at a top 10 school, you’re making a huge 300,000 dollar investment, but the return is pretty good. – It pays off. – It pays off. – What about, so many of those kids, cause now I’m spending a
lot of time with those kids. So many of those kids want to
become startup entrepreneurs. – Right. – Do you believe that the
ROI is equally as good at that 300,000 dollar investment if they wanna go down that path versus going to Bain and McKinsey, who start paying them
tremendously strong salaries and bonuses that can drive down that debt. – Depends on the quality of their idea. Let’s face it. – What’s your intuition tell you– – We are running all the time into people that wanna be, quote, entrepreneurs. It’s not a profession. It is the output of a great idea. – Yep. – It’s not like being
a lawyer or a doctor. What is your idea, what
is the value proposition, and can you win with it? – Yeah. – So, I always end the
show where I ask a question

“How can efficiency and
creativity better work together?” – They will be inefficient into the time and space you give them, to be honest. I mean, I was a creative a long time, and then I became the
boss of the creatives, and I knew how much fat was
built into their writer’s block and their, you know, thinking
and everything, and– – The zen room they needed. – And I had to come out
of the associate press, where you had to turn out
seven, eight stories a day. I knew that the creativity
expanded into that space. And of course, you gotta be creative, and creatives need some time
to decompress and so forth, but we give them a little bit too much, or maybe not we in general, but it is easy to listen to them moan and
groan about needing more, and so creatives can be efficient. – To get efficiency,
you gotta be creative, and you gotta have creative people. And efficiency doesn’t
mean some guy or woman in a hole, driving every day. It means that people
are thinking of new ways to do things, coming up with
incremental improvements, making things better every day. Finding a better way every
day takes a thinking head set, and you want that
mentality in your company. You want the whole company
to be thinking about, every day, what is a better way
of doing what I’m doing now? – I’m a big fan of
betting on your strengths, and also really
recognizing putting players in the best position to succeed. And we have nothing but creatives here, of the 500 employees, 200 of them, and if I’ve deemed, if we’ve deemed, if Tina, who runs our
Creative Department deems that this person is bringing us quality, I think one thing that a
lot of people try to do is mold them into being more efficient. I’ve done that plenty
of times in my career. One of the things I’ve
decided now is to look at it more as a net-net game, right? You know, I may not like
that they need to be in a zen room with unicorns in it, I may not, but if I’m
okay with the output. If I’m okay, net-net, 365 day year output, I’ll take it, right? You could have the most
prima donna creative, but if they do that one
thing that you decide drives the ROI, on the flip
side, you could have somebody who’s the most efficient
but lacks the magic. What you have to really do is, it’s wide receivers in football. Listen, they’re at the
mercy of the quarterback getting them the ball, that’s why, they don’t get to touch the ball. The quarterback touches the ball, the running back touches the
ball when the call’s played, the receivers don’t, so many variables, and I’m very intrigued by that psychology. That being said, you know, I value speed and execution over everything. And so, I definitely sit
on that Mendoza line, if there’s a coin toss. If I’m even debating it, if
I’m even debating your value as a creative over the
efficiency and the output, you’re in trouble. – That’s sensational, one of the things. No it is!
– Thank you, Jack. – One of the things that
really can kill a company is the innovators sit over here in a box, and they are Thomas Edison,
and they are Steve Jobs, – The ninjas. – And they’re these people. And then, everybody
else, keep your head down and be a grunt. You lose the minds of these people. You want everybody to be an innovator! – Right.
– 100 percent. And it’s interesting, here at Vayner, we’re a classic agency,
we want more practicality from our creatives, and we
want our account strategists being creative, and that’s
been a big benefit for us. And, you know what else it
does, it creates mutual respect. Because when the innovators are over here, they sit on a higher ground,
and it deflates the momentum and the equity. – Right, any time you get prima
donnas in an organization, it enervates everyone around. – So, let’s wrap up with this, we don’t do a wrap-up session, but we’re
gonna make a unique thing.

“what is the best solution for
documenting policy, procedure “and process so all are on the same page?” – Jeremy, I hate this question
for a couple of reasons. You know, it’s interesting. I’m gonna piggy-back off
the last statement here, which is, to me, this is
a defense question, right? This is a bottom 10 percent question. – Yeah. – There is no business on earth that won because they had a tight
handbook situation, right? So, for me, I mean, unless
you’re talking about liabilities on a legal level, you know. GE should worry about that to some degree because of the level of lawsuits. and by the way, they
have 400,000 employees, and there’s probably 8,000
lawyers, there’s people to do it, but a company of 500 people. India, they’re not gonna hear
this, but you prepped them, like how we have a handbook here and nobody really knows about it. I mean, this is a 500 person,
and it’s still a baby, like that is something
that I think you need to be worrying about at your– – Yeah, forget documentation,
have a culture. Over here has a culture. And as soon as you’re documenting things, you’re wasting everyone’s
time, it becomes a bureaucracy, all that matters are your
values and your culture. Make sure they’re being lived, and you don’t have to document anything. – But everybody has to
know where you’re going, why you’re going there, and
how you’re gonna get there. – Well, that’s leadership, right? – And that is the job that– – That’s my job. – That’s yours, and the
people that work for you, and cascading down. But everybody’s gotta know the mission, they gotta know how they’re
gonna do it with behaviors, and then they’ve gotta be, and what are the consequences of getting there? – There’s another thing that I think people need to understand. And by the way, this is
gonna get very Vaynerized, and India, you’ll enjoy this. And everybody here. As I started bringing
in more senior people, they wanted to bring in
more of these things. And I made them understand, I’m like, “Look, you don’t understand. “We’re still this entrepreneurial engine.” And if somebody comes into this company and they’re so worried about the handbook, and so worried about
reviews, and so worried about all these things, I
don’t want them here now. Not that they’re bad, but they’re not the right players at this time. I was the best player on my
fourth-grade baseball team. There’s not a single
baseball team in America in Major League baseball
that needs me on their team. So, I was the right player for that time, but then as everybody
got much bigger than me, I became not so much. And so we now need different people that maybe care about some of those things as we continue to grow,
but not at that time. So the other thing here
is, the right employee at the right time, at the
right age of the company.

“10 percent still a good idea? “Even on a team of all-stars,
someone has to be last.” – Why don’t you set this
up, because obviously, what was the name of that person? – [India] Chris. – Chris knows about your thesis, I mean, this is a very legendary
POV in corporate America, entrepreneur land, like this
is one of the iconic things you put into the business world. Really quick, faster than
normal, tell everybody what that is so everybody knows, and then answer the current version. Actually, why don’t
you come out with that, and give it a little
life, and then tell me what the 2015 version of it. – If you believe that the best team wins and that business is a game, you’ve gotta field the best players. So in order to field the best players, you look at, any one point in time, who are your top 20,
who are your middle 70, and who are your bottom 10? And you wanna take that top 20 and you wanna make ’em feel six foot four and made for power. – What if they’re six five to begin with? – Go to six eight. (they laugh) And what you wanna do though, desperately, is make them know they’re that good. You want ’em to be excited,
you want ’em turned on, you want ’em passionate. The middle 70, you want ’em
striving to be in that top 20, and the bottom 10, you tell
’em what’s wrong with ’em, what they’re not doing
right, you give ’em a chance, if they don’t make it, you let ’em go. But when you let ’em go, you
love ’em as much on the way out as you loved ’em on the way in. – I’m a big believer in that part. – And that’s a big, important thing. – I agree. Do you feel, now you played at a GE, how many employees under
your wing on average? – 400,000. – Okay, 400,000 employees
that you were in charge of during that run as CEO of GE. Do you think that thesis holds true to VaynerMedia, 500 people? – More important. The fewer you have. – I’m gonna go a little quicker. How about, there’s a lot
of five people teams here. Five to seven people watching, listening– – And it makes it harder for some, because you’re looking straight at the five people who got you started. And it’s so tough. I was talking to somebody last night at a conference who said he had to let go his former junior partner,
and it was killing him. But he had to do it,
she wasn’t delivering. And I said, “Look, as long
as you take care of her “and you’re fair, and
you’ve explained to her “for the last year what
she wasn’t doing right, “you gotta do it.” – Do you think– – The thing that gets me
about this question is, the thing we hear again and again, we hear in this question
is, even if everybody, even if it’s an all-star team. – No such thing. – And there’s no such thing. You’ve gotta look at your team and say, “Who is the weakest player, can I upgrade, “can I upgrade?” – It’s never existed. – It’s very, very, I mean,
you can’t fall in love with your team and say, “Now
I have the perfect team.” But the next manager comes in and says, “What was that person thinking?” – Yeah, I mean– – I have another take on this, too. Why do we always focus on the bottom 10 in this 20-70-10? Why aren’t we saying,
“How exciting the top 20!” – 100 percent. – Why aren’t we talking about the winners? – Because it’s rubbernecking. It’s the same reason
that we sit in traffic all the time, Jack. Alright, let’s move on. – [Voiceover] Jeremy
asks, “As businesses grow, “what is the best solution for
documenting policy, procedure

– [Voiceover] Jeanluc asks,
“This questions really “got me thinking. “When do you shift from
hiring a freelancer “to hiring someone for full time?” – Jeanluc, easy question. It’s just easy. There’s really a couple of scenarios. Number one, the moment
you fall in love with them and you say you should
join my team full time because we’re going to be great together, this well bring value to my business. Number two, when you have a necessity. When you’re business is growing, whether it’s a new
client or you’re selling more of your stuff that
they’re producing for or whatever it may be. Your business has grown and now you have a tested employee that goes to full time. There’s a third scenario when the freelancer is so infatuated with love with your business that
they’re pushing aggressively to join the team. It may not be practical,
you may not be able to fully afford it, but
your intuition tells you that long term, you know
nine months from now, the ROI will start kicking in and I want to reward this
person’s passion around me so I’m willing to make a little
less money in the short term for that relationship and that
stickiness of the long game. Those tend to be the
scenarios when you make the shift, Jeanluc. – [Voiceover] Zack asks, “What’s
your travel schedule like

– Lewis asks “Where would
you start in building a digital team within a
traditional TV or print agency?” – Lewis there’s an interesting
thing that I believe in very much which is you are what
your actions show you are. It’s very similar, I’m probably
affected by Bill Parcells, in football legendary hall
of famer coach Bill Parcells former Jet coach always said
you are what your record says you are because everyone’s
like we’re eight and eight but we could have been 10
and six if we you know, but at the end of the
day you are what you are. Thanks Mike. It’s very easy to create
a digital practice within a traditional print or direct
mail, outdoor media or PR. All these agencies now have
to shift into the world that we’ve created because
that’s where the dollars and the momentum and where
the story telling is going. This video will be consumed
a hell of a lot more in YouTube and Facebook
native than it will as a pre roll pop up somewhere. And so I think it’s super
important that you understand you are what your actions say you are. Meaning it’s very easy, go out
and hire seven to 12 people that work in digital social,
bring them into your department and now you have that capability. Now the key for the CEO or
the chairman of the board, her and his job is to
really integrate that new, we’re going through it now
VaynerMedia has a new live division called VaynerLive,
it’s live events activation. It’s not what we’ve historically done. It’s activating at Coachella or South By or things of that nature. And we’re six months in and
we still have to integrate it into the business but we brought in Robert and other people that have
done that work in the past. Now we have the skill set. Now how does that practice mold in to the whole organization? That’s the tricky part, that’s
where dictatorship comes in. That’s where letting things happen the way they have to happen. I’m a big fan of letting things
lie so I’ve stayed hands-off for the first several
six and a half months. Now maybe I feel like maybe
like I’ll get my hands in a little bit dirtier
just get it molded in. Leadership is knowing when to
listen, knowing when to talk. Knowing when to take a
step back, knowing when to jump in and integrate it. But the commodity of
hiring people that have the skill set to do the
work, it’s out there. It’s just making the
leap to decide to do it. – Andrew asks “Do you plan
on embedding Facebook videos

“people to make the same decision I made “by leaving a very secure
job to pursue their dream. “My question is, will my
employee retention rate drop? “Since you started building
up your personal brand, “has your employee
retention rate dropped?” – Benjamin, the thing you
need to understand is that intent trumps everything. And so I think one amazing
thing in this company that I’m extremely proud
of is I truly believe that these people that
work at VaynerMedia really recognize that I want to win but not at their expense. I want to buy the Jets, not at
the expense of my employees, with my employees and I equally
want what’s best for them. Of course, you know,
looking at these three, and things are running through my mind and, obviously, I know them
all at different levels, but you know, there’s
narratives in my mind that I can play out right
now that leads to a world of them not being here. And that makes me sad and I really don’t want that. And from an ego standpoint,
I truly believe that I can bring them so much
value over the long haul that makes it interesting
for them to stay. But I think it’s massively
important that they always, deep down, feel as though I want them to have what they want, even though, optically,
it doesn’t benefit me. And I would say 40% of
VaynerMedia believes that. And that may surprise you as a low number, but I hope you understand
the level of cynicism that is instilled in us as human beings to not believe everything I just said. And so I’m massively proud of the 40% and I’m really pumped
that I think that 40% was actually 12% only 12 to 18 months ago and so I’m building momentum, right? Look, I think if you’re
scared to lose somebody who believes in their heart that they have the skill set to go and do it, you’re making a huge
mistake and I actually think you build retention by
showing them the reverse. It’s a reverse psychology
game that is not a tactic because if you don’t actually believe it, that reverse psychology
will come across as bullshit and you’ll lose it. I don’t do it because I want
to reverse psychology India, I do it because I believe it. And then they have to believe
and evolve in their place. You know, I believe that
the evolution of people not being here is gonna
have a lot more to do with things in life, they
fall in love and get married, and have to move ’cause
their spouse really needs to do this and they have
the empathy and being the bigger man or woman
in the relationship to go let their spouse do that, unfortunately, maybe something tragic. I actually think that when you’re pure, when you want to win but
you want to win with, not, you know, on the
back of, people start sticking around because the truth is, if somebody works at a
job, in a lot of ways, they weren’t thinking
purely, I’m gonna put this on my back to begin with, right? And you, and I don’t know your age, is there a picture, or
is this a written word? – [India] Oh, this is written. – You know, I don’t know
your age, but again, if you’re over 30, you were
sold on a world where it wasn’t, I’m gonna go do my own thing, right? So now that we live in
that world, I actually feel that the kids that are going
to work for companies now in lieu of entrepreneurship
are truly not entrepreneurs. Back into that big argument of
entrepreneur-like tendencies and entrepreneurship,
I’ll tell you right now, show me a 23-year-old
that wants to work here and I’ll show you somebody
who is, got entrepreneurial tendencies but isn’t pure entrepreneur. So I just think doing
the right thing is always the right thing and I think
empowering your people to follow their dreams if
they have one, if they think they’re good enough, if
they are willing to deal with the stress and all the
dog shit that comes along with having all the
pressure on your shoulder, then, you know, you empower
them and root for them and try to be part of that narrative. But if they have tendencies, what you’re doing is
actually building a deeper relationship with that person, and actually, my belief
is that percentage, you’re creating longer term. I mean, the stickiness of this company is pretty intense,
given the agency world’s a tough place for stickiness
and so I’m very proud of that and you know what I spew. Great last question. Question of the day,

today, how well would
VaynerMedia do in the long term without it’s CEO? Have you been satisfied
with Wine Library’s performance since leaving
to focus on VaynerMedia?” – Andrew, this is a great question. I mean, I always say
everything stems from the top, and so I’m trying to
think about how I wanna answer this question,
meaning A.J. is ridiculously capable. I don’t think the
company would do as well, mainly because he just had his big brother and mentor die, and so even though he’s capable I would assume that he would be pretty torn up. He better be. I think that he would struggle with that, and I don’t think he loves
client services enough to persevere, and he’d be like,
what is it all worth anyway? Who cares? On the flip side, there’s
an interesting thing. Believe it or not, this is a weird thing. Though A.J. is hands down the most capable person to be the CEO of VaynerMedia, I could almost see him
not wanting to do it, and I could almost see so many people here internally saying, no we have to continue the hustle and so, it’d be interesting. I think we built a very
interesting culture here. Similarly, Brandon runs
Wine Library with my dad, and Bobby and Justin, it’s all family. My best friend, my brother
in law, my cousin, my dad. My ego made me think that
Wine Library would hurt more than it did without me there. To answer your question, I am
happy with how Wine Library has performed with me not there. That being said, do I think it
could be way way, way better? Of course, I mean I think I’m great. Do I think the businesses
are better off without me than with me?
Absolutely not. Are they in places where they
won’t go out of business? Absolutely. Are they in places where they have no prayer of the hyper growth that I create when I’m the operator? That’s for damn sure. The biggest thing that
I create is the ability to grow big businesses fast as shit. That’s gonna end up being my
legacy if I do it one more time and I’m not on business number two that I’ve taken in a 36 month
period with no cash infusion to very big heights. That is a very difficult
task in a cash flow basis. The companies that grow big on funding, that make sense. The Ubers, and that
company is way better than what I’ve executed, but still when you have hundreds of millions
of dollars of funding, the speed is what I’m talking about. Forget about the business. Well in a non-funded business, to be able to build that speed,
that takes an incredible game of chicken, because
you’re playing cash flow versus growth. Being able to afford. You know how proud I am that we’ve never had lay offs
because we lost a client? That is unheard of in agency world, and it’s triple unheard of for the fastest growing agency of all time in people. I’m proud. That is what I’m uniquely great at. They won’t grow as fast, but there’s enormous talent around me that is able to do their thing. That being said, I’m so much, not only the executional leader
of my friends and families and business, I think
I’m the emotional leader with a lot of them too. I would think that they
would really struggle with my absence, and would
crumble into a little hole. I’m just kidding. I think they would struggle with that.

a millenial owned branding agency here in New Jersey. What are key factors we
should be looking for when hiring other millenials
as we quickly scale?” – Well, great picture,
it’s a good time to stop, especially for everybody listening. So, stop your treadmill, pull
over on the side of the road. I need more Instagram picture questions. I need more Instagram picture questions. Tag AskGaryVee or AskGaryVeeShow
on your Instagram. Just like this question. So obviously if you’re listening, go and watch the show just so
I can show you what I mean, but obviously if you’re watching, you know exactly what I mean. I’m going to say it one more time. You, the audience, you, the VaynerNation, oh, go I need a wristband, Steve. You the VaynerNation,
are the oxygen that allows this show to happen. The more you guys check out or take it for granted or get into a rut because I wasn’t on for two weeks, the more likely I will stop at episode 94. So, like I really, really
need your help here to continue the momentum. So, if you like this show at all, and if you’re shy or not shy, either way, I basically
need an Instagram photo with a question. Here’s a link to how you ask the question. And let’s move on. Will, I think building a millenial agency, I always talk about that fat dude that built Backstreet
Boys and N Sync, right? He wasn’t a 13 year old girl. He just knew how to market
to 13 year old girls. I, especially with the gray hairs, even some in the beard which is weird, I am not a millenial. I know how to market to millenials better than all of my millenials combined. Okay? So I would say, first things first, were you thinking I Poppa? First things first, I would say is you don’t have to, and this is a huge mistake that most people make. You don’t necessarily hire millenials to market to millenials. Just cause you’re 24, doesn’t mean you know how to sell shit to a 24 year old. So, first and foremost, what you should be thinking about in hiring people is do people actually know how to market to the age group? The reason I mention that 50 year old fat white dude is he
understood 12 year old girls and pop music better than anyone. Just like this 39 year old old dude understands the behavior
of 13 to 23 year olds better than most people. So, first what you should be looking for is can they talk the game
to the actual audience, not necessarily are they the
demo of the actual audience. (bell dings)