“I know you hate talking about ROI, “but how do you show someone
there’s a true return “on your efforts on social media?” (sighs) – Well, how did he set
the question up again? “I know you hate talking.” – [Steve] I know you
hate talking about ROI — – Yup. – [Steve] but how do you show someone there’s a true return on your efforts — – Robert, I love you for this question. DRock, definitely edit this
out and make it one question. It’s called “ROI of Your Mother, Part Two” because I want to put this
right to bed once and for all. The “ROI of your Mother”
concept is to make fun of traditional media ROI, not to get away from social media ROI. I, Robert, I love to talk
about the ROI of social media. I don’t want to run away from it. I’m all-in on it. Once and for all, I wanna talk about this. I love ROI. I sell stuff. It’s what I do. Nothing matters to me otherwise. No marketing media reports, no rewards, no AdAge mentions, that’s
not what I play for. I wanna sell coffee, I wanna
sell cheese, I wanna sell wine, I wanna sell gadgets,
I wanna sell sweaters. I wanna sell you if you let me. That’s how I roll. And so, how do you prove it? You prove it. Meaning, there’s a lot of ways to do it. I don’t know what you’re trying to sell and I know a lot of brand
managers from big brands kind of follow me and watch me here. It’s very easy to prove
the ROI of social media. When we post the T-shirt
that we want to sell, let’s link that up. By the way, never got
around to posting T-shirts, so now it’s 20 bucks not 14,
the reverse engineer thing. I apologize, VaynerNation. We see the sales. When I post, when we run
dark posts for Wine Library, we see the sales. When we ran that campaign
for that one organization, we got 2400 sign-ups, versus
the 60 sign-ups they got for doing YouTube videos
and billboards and all that, and they spent 10 times more there. It is very easy, my friend, if you have the direct channel connect. What I mean by that, I
don’t know what that meant, it just spewed. But if you can prove
it out on the back end. So for example, let me explain. For most of the clients we work with, when you’re a CPG company, and you sell your product to
Walmart and then they sell it, it gets hard to prove the ROI of a post. But when you’re Gary Vaynerchuk and you have winelibrary.com
and you post it, and it goes directly back
to you, you can see it. Guys, the only reason
I have so much bravado is I’m seeing the math. I come with bravado when
I have intuition, right? But I’m always hedging. Watch my narrative. I’m always like, “There’s
something happening here.” Look what I just did with virtual reality. I’m nuancing it. Yes, I’m making, I’m hedging, but I’m still making a commitment. But the insanity that you’ve seen from me on Facebook dark posts,
or the emerging insanity on Pinterests’ ad product once it gets a little bit more price
effective in that scale, that’s nothing you’ve seen
from me since maybe 2009 “Crush It!,” when I really
believed in YouTube because I was feeling it. Guys, I’m feeling it right now. How do you prove the ROI? You create a connective
tissue to show you that this thing did that. Now that’s direct response selling, right? That’s D.R., and that’s fine. I’m a branding guy. You need a mix. Because if you keep throwing right hooks, it has diminishing returns. But it’s never been more easy to prove the ROI of social
media than it is right now, because you can just link it directly to the dot com attribution,
whereas you cannot do that for print, outdoor, radio, or television. You just can’t. You can’t do it in the same exact way. You can create a call to
action in those commercials, and you could track it,
and you can and you will, and that’s why those channels
matter still as well, but it’s very easy to put a
link in any piece of content, even an Instagram where
I put in my headline, you guys know what I’m talking about. So, you know, misnomer. I do like talking about
the ROI of social media. I just don’t like that
it’s not understood that it’s more obvious to track
it than it is in traditional. And more importantly, I don’t wanna talk, turn, t-t-t-turn all of you into direct response sellers, because then you’re far
too much right-hooking. So a lot of times the
best pieces of content are engaging and jabbing where there is no link
out to a call to action, so there’s a drop in the
correlation of sales, but you’re doing the better
overall thing for the brand. My friends, it’s branding and marketing, not just sales, but social
media can show you sales. – [Voiceover] Roberto asks,

“Can anyone create good micro-content? “How can you make sure
your team consistently “creates good content?” – Joe, great question. First, for everybody who’s
watching and/or listening, I want to talk about the
term “micro-content.” It’s something I started
using three, four years ago. Hasn’t really caught on. I myself don’t know how often I’m gonna use it going forward. But the notion was
content made specifically for the platform. You know, the videos and the pictures, the quotes, the written words
that worked on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Pinterest,
Instagram, Snapchat, Vine. It was the context of the book
“Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook.” DRock, throw it up there. Throw it up there, show it. They got it? – [DRock] Mmhmm. – [Gary] You got it, ok.
– [DRock] Mmhmm. – [Gary] So, you know, how do you
make good micro-content? How do you consistently
get your team to do it? First of all, content
is subjective, right? Steve likes “Game of Thrones” shows. I don’t, not that I don’t like it, I just haven’t even seen it yet. Some people watch “Game of
Thrones” and don’t like it. Very few, I think,
’cause it’s very popular. But you know, it is
still clearly subjective, that’s number one. Number two, how do you get a
team to be good at anything when you’re scaling your
kind of P.O.V. on the world and marketing to a 400
person, and downstairs, lot of comments about
downstairs, we’ll get there, um, organization. It’s about education,
but I would actually say that for me scaling and
getting my team to get there has a lot to do more with osmosis, right? Like putting it into their water stream, versus having a class that teaches it. Sure you can write a book. Sure we have lunch-and-learns
and learn-ups within the new organization, but they’re not attended that well. Need to talk about that, by the way. Um, what’s happening more here is that people are doing
and people are smart. You know, it starts with hiring
good people, smart people. And then when you realize
that you’ve hired somebody who’s not capable of learning
through that process, well then you gotta make some decisions. But to me, making good content takes a couple core pillars. Number one, you’ve got
to respect your audience. Meaning, you’ve gotta
respect the psychology of what they’re doing when
they’re on the platform. I know a 40-year-old woman
is in a different mindset when she’s on Facebook versus
when she’s on Pinterest. And that is how I try
to story-tell to her, because I know on Pinterest,
she intent to shop, aspiration to shop, and on Facebook, she’s keeping up with her
world or consuming information. And I strategize around
that, the psychology and the platform itself. Number two, when I say respect, I put out content that
I think she will like versus what I’d like to accomplish. Yes, I’d like to, give me a bottle of wine. Yes, I’d like to, a little faster, Alex, I know it’s early. Yes, I’d like to sell this,
but if I put it in a way that is more interesting to her, five under $10 bottles
of wine that, you know, help you get through the day when you have eight-year-old kids, and then you’re targeting
eight-year-old-kid moms, you’re going to start getting into a game that gives you a better chance. You know, 12 wines somebody
who’s 38 will like, and then you target people
from that were born in 1975. These are all strategies that will work. Again, very heavy Facebook. Or Instagram, taking a glamour
shot of it, in an angle, and it’s just like cool and nice. It’s like it’s all the kind of stuff. Respecting the audience,
respecting the platform, taking your agenda and making it third. – [Voiceover] James asks, “What are your thoughts on
podcasters and YouTubers

great for jabs, but not for right hooks. Any ideas or predictions on
using it to make right hooks? – David, there’s an
interesting thing here, and I’m gonna deep today, because I just got a
whiff of the questions, and so this could be a very deep episode. A deep and deep episode. I said it twice. Deep and deep episode
of the #AskGaryVee Show is coming guys, so like, a lot of you have left in the comments, like, I like when you get very detailed, I’m gettin’ detailed today. Let’s get into it. First, you have to debate the philosophy of a holistic social media approach of, should you just use Instagram as a jabbing platform by itself? Should Instagram be a
place where you’re jabbing, because you also know a lot of your fans follow you on Twitter and Facebook and things of that nature, and a lot of times, I mean, look, I used Instagram as jabbing
for the first couple of years, a lot of selfies, a lot of sneaker shots. Right? But if you’ve noticed,
with the #AskGaryVee Show, I’m using Instagram as a
right hook platform, lately. If you look by percentage, over my last 15-25 photos, as a matter of fact, lately, I’ve tried to throw some more jabs in ’cause I felt there was a little too much right hook going on. I’m now putting up 15 second
versions of this episode and in the copy saying “Go into my profile, because in my profile “I am linking to the current episode.” So the only way to actually
drive people out of Instagram is by changing your
URL in the edit profile part of your profile, and so that’s the way
to throw a right hook. And so, yes, you could put a piece of creative on Instagram, that works, and then, in the copy, drive people that see
that into your profile and then link out and
convert your right hook as driving them there. And so I’ve done both. Though, I for a long time, and still, probably, at this point and that’s why I’m testing, I’m always going against my own stuff, all of you could call me out and say “Gary, didn’t you say not to do that?” I’m always going against my own POVs to always taste, right now I’m
not sure exactly where I fit, but like, intuitively, I’m feeling that the jabbing on Instagram
is a great way to go. So if you look at your whole
thing as a holistic play, and you’re on all these platforms and your core group is following
you in multiple places, maybe Instagram is where you’re jabbing, maybe Facebook is where you’re
throwing that right hook. So, that’s the deep
steak on the bone, today. Answer to that one. – [Voiceover] Mount Dream asks:

“what big changes have you seen
in online content creation, “and how can people maximize them?” – David, what’s up brother,
hope you’re doing well. Enjoyed our filming years ago,
glad to get you on the show. Biggest thing that’s
changed really is, you know everything has just become
so much bigger since 2009. Facebook is such a bigger
powerhouse than it was back then. New things like Snapchat, and
Vine, and all these things so it’s really, everything I saw coming, at least in that way, has come true. These things have grabbed more attention. YouTube and Vine
celebrities are bigger than real celebrities to the
13 to 18 year old demo, that’s going to continue
and go full scale, and so the opportunities are to find
the medium you’re best at. Some people rock Vine,
some people rock Snapchat. If you’re good at taking
pictures and drawing on top of yourself, Snapchat
might be your place. If you might be great at
Pinterest, to the female demo, making info-graphics, beautiful pictures. Instagram, we’ve seen a
whole emergence of stars, curators, people of talent and so just more new avenues are coming out and so,
just more of the same, more of the same tactics. Crush It!’s tactical advice to the platform might be outdated, but the thesis has never rung more true. Thanks everybody for
watching episode five,