#AskGaryVee Episode 39: Facebook Organic Reach, Dating in NYC, and Being a Leader

I actually just started
at VaynerMedia yesterday, so I’m on day number two. – Newb. (laughter) Newb. I’m impressed with the hustle though, like sneaking in to the
first episode of questions on your second day? That’s an impressive start. Trying to make an impression on the boss. I, I appreciate it. All right. What’s your question? – Okay, so my question is, so you know how Facebook reach has been going down. – Organic. – And this is the lowest
levels we’ve ever seen. – Yep. – So, I’m curious, what do
you think is the role of organic or unpaid content where the brand is always on
strategy, and the second part– – Within a Facebook world? – Within the Facebook world, and the second part of the question is, just how much reach is
enough to actually justify the time, effort, and
resources that go into producing these assets? – That’s a great question, man. Nice start. Um, you know I think it all depends on size, scale, and objective, right. So I think the biggest problem
that everybody makes is there’s no one size that fits all. Obviously, the brands
that we work with here are at huge scale, versus let’s say a lot of people watching who’ve got a small business. You know, we manage some brand pages that I can think of right now, that are so large in overall size and have done a good job
putting out great content that they’re still getting
hundreds of thousands of impressions organically
without paid up front. Now obviously, all of you have heard me ranting about dark posts for quite a bit. And we even talked about this
when you were interviewing. So for me, you know,
do I feel that Facebook has evolved into a place
that you want to look at 80, 90, even 100% of your posts are being preplanned to its audience and then paid upfront? You know, if you’re a fortune 500 company I do believe that that justifies the case. And I believe that
because I actually think that those working media
dollars, those paid dollars, are a hell of a lot
better spent on Facebook, than they are on traditional
banner or things of that nature places and organizations that you can from giving those kind of advices. So, I think that that’s the case. Now, what’s the threshold? I think that comes down
to the objective at hand. Look you can be a Fortune 500 Company, only reach 16 hundred people organically, but try to be selling
something that’s $10,000 as a B to B product and if you convert four people, and you’re making $40,000 on it. You’re profit margin is 50% and you’ve made $20,000 in profit, and your agency charged you $800 or $1800 well then you justify the means. So I think it’s, one of the biggest things that we try to do here, and one thing I think all of
you need to pay attention to is how do you become
efficient on the back end. I think what’s separating us, and what I’m excited about here, is we’re producing quality
content at a cost level that the market has
never seen before, right? And that’s out advantage, right? That for you, with fresh eyes, is probably the difference
that you’re seeing. That’s what you guys have to think about. For a lot of entrepreneurs
that are watching, and I know that’s a core
of my audience, is is your time worth it. Because it’s not a money
game, it’s a time game. So it’s always resources. To me there is no one size fits all. For all the brand managers,
and the CMOs and the CFOs and the corporates that
are watching the show or listening to the show, I know for a fact that they need to really look at just the math, right. Like, am I paying more
that what I’m reaching. So if you’re paying a
traditional digital video shop $10,000 to make a video, and then you post it organically and it reaches 900
people, that’s off, right. So, I just think that you have
to look at it case by case. – Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Sorry Stunwin. – Always changing the rules. So my question for you– – What, what? – Okay, hi Gary. I’m Emily. – I know, not for me, for them. – I’m Emily McDonough, I
work in HR, Gary’s team. – How long have you been at Vayner? – About three and a half years, and I’ve had some different
roles in the building. – OG
– So. – Really opposite play there. – Yeah, OG. – Okay, see my order was better. For the story of OG, new beat, thank you. – So legend has it that one
your first date with your wife you told her that you
we’re going to marry her. – That’s not exactly true,
but I’ll get into the details. – I wanna hear that story,
and then I also wanna know what dating advice you have for women in their 20’s in New York City. (laughter) – Oh, god, this is great. – We’ve never talked about this. – Listen, you’re absolutely right. I’ve never talked about this. Um, so, the legend is, and it’s true, that after Lizzie and I’s first date, which was a three hour date on a Sunday night in New York City. Which, little fun fact, the Jets happened to win that Sunday, and had they lost the date
would have not happened. So that just– – You would have cancelled? – It’s, I would have cancelled. – Because you would have been upset, okay. – Yeah, that’s exactly right, – Okay. (laughter) – It went extremely well. I lived in Jersey by the Wine Library, she lived on the Upper East Side. I drove her home, and I dropped her off and two minutes after I dropped her off I called her on her cell phone, she wasn’t even in her apartment and my opening line was,
can you believe this is it? And that was it. And we talked from that moment all the way to my 45 minute drive home, and until like four
o’clock in the morning. And we we’re married within
the year of our first date. So, that’s the legend of that story. Little tears from the ladies
in the audience. I love it. Ah, advice, so you know I think about. It’s really funny, having a daughter changes so much in a man’s life, I think. And so, though I know she’s gonna grow up in a very different world, I sometimes project what, and having so many
amazing 20 year old girls that work at VaynerMedia,
it’s an interesting thing. Look, I think we’re living through a really interesting time, right. For example, girls are always in a place where they’re judged by other girls. That’s the psychology that’s
most fascinating to me. What would women do in a world where that wasn’t such an
overwhelming kind of pillar to the way they have to
navigate through their lives. You know, you can look at
how girls dress on Halloween, and like watching all the
comments on Instagram. Because these are the
kinda things I look into. I would say this, I would say, I’m gonna give advice the way
I like to give business advice which is think about legacy, meaning, I think the world’s
changing quite a bit, right. Like, you know, there’s a lot of talk about women in the work place
and the lean in moverment and all these things. Women are clearly closing the gap. You know, the world’s changing so much, especially in the context of the U.S. that I would be more
aggressive, believe it or not. That would be my advice, and I know it’s a little bit of a, kinda a left turn, and maybe it’s a guy
giving advice to a girl. But, like, for me I think it’s never been more appropriate to be on the offense, you know because of just
what’s going on in the world. And so I think, you
know, I think that women are in a much better place than they were 20 or 30 or 40 years ago to say I’m attracted or intrigued
by that gentleman and go on the offense. You got it Alex. And, ah, and that’s what I would say. I think one of the biggest
mistakes guys and girls make is they’re just scared
to go in for the move because they wanna protect and
hedge against their feelings. And I will tell you this, your feelings could hurt for a little bit, but the long term regret, the amount of people who
are watching this right now, maybe even in this room that are sad, men and women, that they didn’t go for it and didn’t make the move, and didn’t try that regret is a hell of a
lot longer and more painful and more drawn out than
the instant rejection of going for it. And so I would say a
little bit more aggression. – Okay.

– I’m James Spector, Senior
copywriter for VaynerMedia. I’ve been here about two
years, a little over now. – Jim, is that what you said? – James. No, I don’t go by Jim. – I thought you said Jim,
and I like freaked out. I’m like is this some new guy? – It’s a new James goin’ into 2015. – That’s good, I didn’t hear you. – So, my question is this. When it comes to new
platforms, emerging tech you’ve always promoted the
idea of being a first mover. Most brands, some brands are
usually very receptive to that. When it comes to campaigns though, some brands tend to focus
on the idea of ownablity. My question is this– – Ownability as like, we need
to dominate this platform? – Or in terms of a campaign, when is that, how ownable is that campaign
to, you know, said brand? My question is this, when
does it become, at what point, a campaign ownable by being the
first brand to do something. As in being the first mover
to do that type of campaign? – You know, I think we’ve
see it in our space, right. Oreo kinda took control
of the real time content people keep bringing it up
over and over and here I am two years later bringing
it up and so I think you can get first mover
advantage in that way. Listen, and this is
gonna get me in trouble, I think that’s a bunch of marketing (beep) When brands think they can own something it just speaks to their naivete
of the heavy fragmentation of the world we now live in, right. You can own something for
a moment, but to own it. Like, there’s no brand that’s gonna own, what brand owns what, right? I guess over thirty
years of iconic marketing Nike could own the sports
space, but do they? Because last time I checked, Under Armor is growing very quickly, and a million of other
things are happening in the world of soul cycle and crossfit. There is no ownable, this is
the naivete, the audacity, and just like the act of
contextual understanding that brands managers and
CMOs and corporate America think that they have the right
to be able own these things. I think here’s what you
need to do as a brand from an ownable standpoint. Can you at this moment own it? That it matters enough to your customers to make them buy your shit, right. And that’s all you can ever ask for and I think people are way
too romantic in marketing. And thinking that they’re gonna create the Just Do It, or the Mastercard Price List, and it’s gonna be this thing that they can put on their resume and
kinda can live off it for the rest of their lives. To me, it’s much more about fragmentation. It’s much more about being great at your last at bat every time. You know I always say you’re only as good as your last at bat, right. This show doing well. If this episode sucks crap, it’s heading in the wrong direction. And all 38 before it mean
nothing as I go forward. And so I think that’s how marketers need to think about that, which is do the best you
can for what you need to do at that moment on the platforms
that you decide to storytell that actually drive business results. Not this romantic feeling
of, like, let’s own it, marketing 360, fully integrated. I mean like all this jargon. Jargon, James, – Thank you.
– You’re welcome.

– Hey, Aimee. – My question is the following. What’s the most important
thing you’ve learned while growing your company at VaynerMedia from East Coast to West Coast, and how does a company successfully scale? – You know, thanks Aimee. You know, it’s funny, I never
opened a second Wine Library so opening a second
office in San Francisco and a third in L.A. has been
a new phenomenon for me. And quite honestly,
there’s challenges in it. You know, obviously I
wanna be everywhere, right. And that matters so much, but look, even at VaynerMedia I’m not sure the last time I’ve been on the 15th floor. Everybody’s asking for an
episode of the 15th floor. I don’t remember, I haven’t
been on the 15th floor in a week, in a month, excuse me. It’s a challenge when
you’re one human being and so for me so much of it is high touch and kinda the way I wanna scale. Aimee, to answer your second part, how do you scale a company? I actually think you scale a company by doing unscalable things. Because I really believe you have to know your business. So at Wine Library I didn’t
need a lot of people, and it was about selling wine. Thus it was a different company. Here, we sell people. We sell our hours against a scope and our thinking and
so all I got is people. And so for me, scaling this company has been doing everything
that’s unscalable. Which is sitting down
and mentoring one by one spending as much time as I can. And trying to empower
people to feel comfortable with coming to me. Now, starting to build
out an H.R. department after a nine month search. Finding Minnie and
saying, this is a person I’m willing to build and
has the natural nuisances to build the culture and the H.R. and E.Q. that I want for this organization. And then having people
that have been with you for three and a half years, you can show Emily
again, and you can wave, and so moving her into to H.R. department as you just heard earlier. So Aimee, for me scaling
this company because I know. Look everybody who has a
business has to understand what business they’re building. And no matter what you do,
it’s always about people. When you’re an agency or client services, it’s extreme people which is so, for me the way to really scale it has been deeply entrenching myself into the people that work with me, for me, along side me, and that’s very important to me. Um, the West Coast
offices dynamic, you know, Alena, if you’re watching
more Skpye sessions. You know how I feel about that. It’s more communication, communication is the backbone of this whole execution and so more time, more physical time. Something Lizzie and I are speaking about. How much time I’m gonna
spend on the West Coast in 15 and 16 is a big commitment to me. So just hacking, hacking away at the thing that matters the most which is do I have a
relationship with all 400 people. And when it’s 4,000 people,
do I have a relationship with all 4,000 people. And I understand the
cynicism that one could have listening to that answer. Like how could you possibly have that? And the way you have it is by having a relationship with the first 40 people. Then having it with the next 400 people. Because the stunning amount of some of the people in this room, and some of the people outside this room, and in San Francisco and L.A., the stunning amount of people that now help me scale, because when somebody struggling or screw this
place, or I don’t believe Gary, they’re quick to jump
in and tell 400 stories about why it’s the other way which then gives that person the ammo to maybe jump in and
relook at the situation a different way, and that can. I always say the truth
is undefeated. Right? And so, for me scaling it is by, by delivering for your teammates.

I work on new business and all things. I’m an account director here. I’ve been here, I don’t
know, about eight months now. Feels like a year almost. I’m really excited for my Vaynerversary. (laughter) So I wanted to ask you a question which I think is going to help some of the entrepreneur viewers but also just the future
leaders of VaynerMedia. When you’re transitioning
from that doer to a leader knowing what your priorities are and where to put your
focus, so that it counts. – Yeah. – Can you talk a little bit about that? – Yeah I can. And you know this is
something that I have a lot. And to put a little more
color for everybody listening, at Vayner and a lot of other
places you get into a place where you, I think you said it right, you’re in execution mode and then all of a sudden you’re managing a team. And those are two very different things. And it’s the thing that I most fear in the organization, period, end of story. Because you have incredible
executors who yearn for the financial upside and the title to then lead a team and boy are those two very, very, very, very,
very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very
different skill sets. And so I think the biggest
thing people struggle with, there are so many things people struggle with with the transition. Number one, the thing I hate
more than anything in the world which is micromanagment. I wanna kick micromanagment in the face. I hate it. And, you know, it’s something I just despise and it’s a major struggle
because if you are a great executor you know how to cross those T’s and dot those I’s. And you know, when you see the person on your team whose not
as strong at executing you can’t help it, it
goes against the grain. So that’s number one thing. Facing yourself in the
mirror and understanding, and I’ve talked to you about this, and I’ve talked to so many leaders in this company about this. This is where people get pissed at me. Most things don’t matter. And that’s a very tough mental transition to somebody that manages a team. The other thing that a lot of
people will struggle with, and I talk about this quite a bit in this organization as well, is when you’re a leader you have to be the bigger man and woman
in every situation. And a lot of times people,
especially when they make that first transition, and it’s the first time
that they’re the leader, they look at it wrongfully
because of society, as I’m the boss and they
try to impose their will instead of what I think
the real skill set is. Which is become a full time listener, a full time empowerer,
a full time eat crap and have humility and
empathy and self awareness. So you go from, what I
believe is I.Q to E. Q. and a lot of people can’t
make that transition. I think the reason this
organization has grown so much is that’s all I focus on
when that transition happens. And don’t try to put pressure on people for new business and client services and all the normal things
one has to worry about. Now I’m the leader, now this
client has to respect me. I need to make Steve happy. I don’t care about that. I can take care of that
at the highest levels. It’s about really empowering
people to become leaders. And leaders, you know I love this. This is obviously a subject matter I love. We talked about it even
in yesterday’s episode. It takes so much more motherly, historically, stereotypically
motherly skills to be a leader and I
think people are confused. I think by default people
think it’s fatherly stuff and I think it’s motherly stuff. It’s emotional skills that allow somebody to make that transition. And really one of the biggest factors in this whole thing is self esteem. If you’re not able to believe in yourself nobody else is gonna believe in you. So I think one of the things is, look I got fortunate, I
got a mother that instilled so much self esteem in me that I’m still trying to get some of it out of me so that I don’t come across
as an egotistical crap head. But I think a lot of
people don’t have that. A lot of people in my family
don’t have that, and I see it and one of the weird
little tidbits that I think can make this episode valuable is if you get into a leadership spot and if your self aware enough to know that your mom or dad put you
down your whole life, or society did, or you
grew up as a minority, or whatever took self
esteem out of your body. Or if you never instilled
in the first place. I think you need to find
an outlet to create it. I think you need to find
an outlet to create it. I think one of the things I
focus on here is I instill it. You know, I instill it. I do talk 90% of the
time about the positives. I just can’t help it. I’m optimistic and I just see it. I see the good, it’s what I do. There’s always bad, but I
think you need to seek it out. And it might come in the form
of extracurricular activities. You might be a great soccer
player, or an improv actor. Or maybe the person you date, maybe you look for somebody
who, instills that. I think that’s a very
attractive characteristic. I can tell you the reason
I married Lizzie so quickly was ’cause she was my mom. And so I like coming home
and having a cheerleader. Like, you’re great. I love that. I want that. And so, I think those are
the things that come to mind. – Thanks Gary.