#AskGaryVee Episode 160: The Sommeliers of Uncorked

Given that wine is currently marketed relative to other alcohols
like beer, liquors, what if the wine industry
changed the conversation to market wine as a food? Food culture is huge right now, and what if we got people to think about wine more as a food rather
than just another alcohol? – Great question, Morgan? – Morgan. – Morgan, great question. I think that’s a really smart thought. I think you’re barking up the right tree in general, in marketing, and I’m gonna try to make
the show very valuable to everybody that watches it and I know a lot of you
are not wine enthusiasts so I’ll go very business on it. Using Morgan’s main theme, I’m a big believer that
you need to market things, the value prop of things, differently and look for white spaces. A bottled water company, you’re always talking about hydration and thirst and things of that nature but maybe you start thinking about it for like how water’s
powerful for the brain. You gotta find white spaces
that bring value props to other products and so if you start thinking about
this like a food product, it might change the way
people think about it. A lot more people eat food than drink wine so I think it opens up the category. I think the problem is, and I’ve thought about this for 20 years, I don’t think you can pull it off. I don’t think you can get
people to really understand that a beverage is a food
or thinking about it. You can make ’em take it
more seriously a la coffee, a la wine, you see what’s going on in brown spirits right now. We can make them, you know, think about wine in a more complicated way and a more perplex way. The problem is, that’s
where I think wine is. I think people actually think about wine more carefully than they think about food which is, in essence, your point, right? If we can make people
less intimidated about it and think of it as a more casual, as a standard within food. I mean, the way the wine
business wants you to think is that this is always at
the table when you’re eating because then you’ve created more occasions to use the product and away you go. So I think it’s the right thought. I think it’s a farfetched dream to think that you can get
people to really think about it in a way that it’s mandatory
to as many use cases as we do with food which is
really the holy grail of that but the interesting part of the question for everybody here is whatever you sell, whatever services you have, if you can make them think about it in a way that brings more value, for example, with VaynerMedia, I make people realize that our machine, our process works for anything, not just selling stuff, but
getting somebody elected, right? Getting donations from a nonprofit. Like the machine can
actually create any awareness around anything that can
create a business result or an end result of your choice. And so, that’s everybody’s job in here. Like, how do you get people to think about your products in a different way? This, this used to be
something you wore, right? Like it was a functional item. You had tennis shoes, unbranded, and then over time people came along and started branding it and it went into a
fashion statement, right? And now it’s a collector’s item. There’s a lot of sneakers being bought to put on a shelf and then trade. Now you’ve got the tennis sneaker in a 40 year window going
from just being a utility to play sports, or run, or what have you, to them being a fashion category play, and now a collector’s category play. Three sections, hence why
we sell a lot more sneakers in society today than we used to. That’s a real life example. That was good, I was happy with that. Alright, let’s move on. Back to the punchline on that, ’cause I wanna make my final point cause I didn’t see the
whole thing through. Somebody had to think
in the 70s and 60s like, “Wait a minute, these tennis
shoes can be fashion items.” Like, for example, right now, I’m collecting all the like merchandise and ancillary things
around Facebook, Instagram, and Snapchat and putting
them away as collectibles ’cause I think they’re
gonna be worth money because I think that’s pop culture. So I think like a Snapchat pillow that they made like three
years ago, right now, is not worth that much on Ebay but I think is worth 500
bucks 17 years from now. You have to project,
like, the selfie stick. Can there be a brand that’s created that’s a Beats by Dre like
thing for the selfie stick? That’s how I’m projecting, got it? So, when I say the sneaker, you may think, well I sell posters. Well what other use cases can there be? Like, you gotta project. – Good stuff, Yannick.

sommelier of the University Club. My question for you today is if you could be a sommelier at any restaurant in New York City, which one would it be and why? – [Gary] Great question.
– Have a great day! Bye. – Oh, great great question. My choice would be Shake Shack, and… (laughs) You like that? – [Steve] I love that.
– Thank you. And here’s the reason. I would take it very seriously. I would pair with the chicken dogs and the cheeseburgers obviously and all the other things, and I would put out a ton of content. I would really push Danny
to like put the pairings on the menu for the cheeseburger and the hot dogs and different
things of that nature. The chili, you could do some
incredible stuff with that. And the reason I’d want to do that is ’cause that’s mass appeal. My passion for wine is
to get as many people to drink it as possible, and if the place where I
think I could move the needle and bring people that are
not in our amazing world together and caring about this product would be Shake Shack. It’s that scale. There’s a lot of locations. There’s tons of asses on those
seats on an every day basis, and if I can get people to realize that great wine can be casual, that would be very, very powerful, and I think I could have
a lot of fun with it. I tend to be reverent in the wine space. I think that brand is, but it’s clearly premium fast food, and I think that’s the right spot, and so I think a very serious wine program at Shake Shack has enormous potential to really change wine
culture in New York City and the world, and I
think that’s very powerful and important and that’s what I would wanna be associated with.

I’m the wine director of Marta Restaurant, and my question is what
do you think the impact of the recent news of
Union Square Hospitality moving away from tipping will
have on New York in general or the industry as a whole? – This is a really
interesting conversation. Ben, the CEO of Resy,
an app I’m involved in, had a great discussion
with some thought leaders in the restaurant space around this. It’s very fascinating. My, so I think Danny is amazing and always innovating and
doing incredible things and I think it’s amazing
that he’s doing something that I think really
takes care of his staff and his internal culture. I think it’s interesting. You know, I… This is actually not my general thought. This is my, one thing
I do well in marketing is I don’t think about what I’m gonna do, and then think everybody’s gonna do that. It’s been very successful for me. I try to think of the general masses. I have a vibe for that. It’s not what I thought about Twitter. Man, I don’t even like social media. What do you think about that? I don’t know, like if I wasn’t in the marketing and business world, I don’t think I’d be really using it. Like, I never took pictures as a kid. Like, there’s no, why do you think I have no Throwback Thursday pictures? There’s no freakin’ pictures of me in my life, Mom, and so… (mimics camera clicking) That’s a little inside joke with my mom. She made all mental pictures. So I think that, I think that, I think that I personally
am in a weird place because I’m still gonna
tip cash on top of it because it’s just in me. Like, I was a stock boy
that took out boxes, and people gave me tips. It’s so engrained in me. So even though I know I’m paying 21% more, or whatever it is, I’m
gonna probably put more cash just ’cause, and then I’m scared that that’s gonna break the whole system because if people still
arbitrarily do that, then what did you do? You just raised it 21%, but I think the flexibility
that allows organizations, the way you can take care
of people that work for you which will then, in turn,
create better service. I also think that an interesting model could have been just raising
the food prices in general. I think that’s a fascinating thing about the restaurant world. You know, the truth is
I really don’t know. I think that, I wonder
for people that are, I think the economy’s very good right now. I think if tomorrow the Wall Street cats are up to their no good
and shit hits the fan, are people gonna be like, “Well crap, “I don’t wanna go there “’cause I’m paying it 21% vig, “and maybe I’m in 10% tip mode right now?” How do you tip, Steve? – I pretty much 20, just by default. – [Gary] D. Rock? – [DRock] 25? – Really? – [DRock] Yeah, I
double the first number, then add like a few more. – On any kind of bill? – [DRock] Pretty much. – I’ll do like 20% and then
just go up to the next dollar. – [Gary] Got it. Staphon? (mumbles) – There’s my man. Way to go honest. Yeah, I mean, but those
are big numbers, right? Like, those aren’t 15, which
is a lot of what people, older demo pays at 15. – [Steve] Yeah.
– It kinda snuck up. I don’t know. I think it’s a very intriguing model. It’s forcing something on the consumer, which I think is fascinating. I think he has the brand
to get away with it for the people that know. I think a lot of people won’t
even know, won’t even realize. They’ll realize when
there’s no line for a tip, and I’m curious how their reaction will be that they got forced into a tip. Some people get antsy when they’re forced into a tip for six or more. So, I don’t know. I think it’s very individual, and I think there’ll be a lot of positive, definitely in the industry, and there’ll be some negative
from the end consumer. For me personally, it’s just
gonna make it more expensive for me to go to USV places, US, you know, those places so because I’m going to still tip. What are your thoughts, Steve? – I don’t know. – Do you know about it? – Oh yeah, no I’m very familiar with it. I don’t know, like, I came up as an actor, so I know tons of people
in the service industry. So like, whatever ends up
screwing them the least is I think it’s a huge positive. It’s kind of a scary situation to be forced to rely on what’s obviously a
subjective judgment call, but when it’s established
in order to pay rent– – I think the thing that
everybody’s gonna worry about is does the service change, right? Like, do the people
that hustle the most… That’s a real challenge. I think Danny will pull
it off operationally, but I think fast followers won’t, and then you’re not allowing
the best servers to win which eliminates meritocracy, which then creates lowest common courtesy and service. – [Steve] I mean, we don’t
have a tipping structure at VaynerMedia.
– I get it. – [Steve] We don’t have to
worry about, ya know, the– – I totally understand. I think that’s easily handled ’cause you could just fire, right? Like or you could just give raises. I mean there’s, a lot
of people always deploy that while we don’t have
tipping in our thing, sure, you have others
ways to like, ya know. There’s levers in all games, right? I think when, look I mean, this gets into a Unionized conversation. I was born in the Soviet Union. We’ve seen that play out at scale. It’s really hard to
suppress humans, and so… But the truth is on a microlevel, on a Danny Meyer’s establishments level, I have enormous confidence
that he can do it. I very much feel that I could
do very rogue shit at Vayner because it’s only 600 people, It’s only 1000 people,
whatever it’s gonna be that I could pull those levers. At super scale is when
it gets interesting. – [Steve] Next question from Dana Gaiser.

I work for Lauber Imports in New York, and I am a master sommelier hopeful. I wanted to know your opinion on the future of the master sommelier in reference to the proliferation of social media, bloggers, powerful wine
critics, et cetera. – Great question, Dana. Dana, I think much of what’s
going on in this episode? Things have their moments, and right now, because of the movie and because of this show coming out, like people are paying
more attention to somms, and I think you’ll have more
people get into the game. We have way more. I run into somms and people that are aspiring to be
master somms all the time because a lot of them started
watching Wine Library TV when they were in high school or college which makes me feel very old. Getting on the 10 year anniversary
of the show in February which is insane. And so I think that, I think there’s gonna be a moment here for the next 36 to 60 months that it’s gonna be cool
and respected more. I mean look, if you were a
chef in the 1970s or 80s, you were the help in America. Now you’re a celebrity. So I think there’s gonna
be an amazing opportunity. I think the bloggers and
the social media things and things of that nature are just gonna amplify the awareness of somms. I think somms have a lot of
opportunity to review wines. One thing I wanna do, as a matter of fact leave in the comments
if you wanna do this. I wanna start sending somms
wines from Wine Library and have them review on
the hundred point scale and using those. I think their opinions matter quite a bit, and so I’m looking for more
democratization at Wine Library on shelf talkers, not
just Parker, Spectator, ya know Galloni or me. I want like somm of X, Y, Z establishment. So I think that’s one thing
that I think you’ll see more of. So I think there’s gonna
be a nice half decade here of more money for you guys and gals for events and private
tastings and, you know. When I was doing Wine Library, and I was doing private
tastings for people, I was the help. Like, I was a retail store owner that I would come to your
house and I would pour. I’m a bartender, right? And yes, I gave my thoughts a little bit. When I became Wine Library TV Gary, people paid me $5000
to come to their house and be the star. It was just a little bit of a shift of exposure and repositioning. No different than Bobby Flay compared to the best chef
in 1970 in New York City. Help versus celebrity. I think master somms are about to go through a really nice half decade. – [Steve] Alright, next
we have Jane Lopes.

– Hi, I’m Jane Lopes. I’m a sommelier at Eleven Madison Park. My question for Gary is with all the recent press on sommeliers in the last few years, what do you think that’s
gonna do to the industry for consumers, for wine, for restaurants. Is it ultimately a good or a bad thing? – Kind of similar to the last question. Kind of similar to the
last question, Jane. I’ll just, it is what it
is, the serendipity of it. I think it’s a good and a bad thing. I think it comes down to you, Jane, and all the other people. With greater power and leverage… Money and exposure. I do not believe that money
and fame change anybody. I think it just exposes who
that person actually is. So, do I think more
exposure around you, Jane, and all the other, your
cast mates on this show, is good, bad, or indifferent
for the end consumer? I think it comes down to you guys. So Jane, you might be
awesome about it, right? You may have a bunch of young people, 16-year-olds in New York,
going to the kind of place that you work at, you know,
may ask you a question and look up to you and say, “I wanna be like you one day.” And you could be encouraging, or you could be a jerk about it, right? Like, it’s like, it’s just how you play this newfound exposure fame leverage, people looking at you differently, and so if you say that, “Oh my God, “now I’m important,” and
you become more douchey, like that has happened
in so many industries, art, music, wine, food, well then that’s bad for the consumer because now we’re suppressing people. If you take your found leverage and you encourage people
and you use it to teach them about different wines and you get people to start drinking chinion
from the Loire Valley like my agenda was, or Portugese wines or all this amazing thing? Well then you’re doing a
great thing for the consumer because the more different
kinds of wines they taste, the more they’re gonna
appreciate this incredible thing that we’re all passionate about. So, I think it comes down
to the individual somm. And so there’s six, right? So right, so two of you
may be incredible about it, three of you might be average about it, one of you might be a jerk about it, and then that’s what the net
score is for the end consumer. – [Steve] Great, last one

what wine will Henrik Lundqvist drink from the Stanley Cup when
the Rangers win it this year, and will I be on hand to
provide proper service? – That’s an amazing question. Josh, great question, brother. 1994 Rangers winning the cup is one of the great days of my life. It was my first professional
championship, so, but once my teams win, I stop caring, but I do have an amazing
place in my heart. I hate being a bandwagon fan, but I was watching the Rangers
in the last couple years making their late runs in the season. Good to see you’re a
massively passionate fan. Clearly, this was a fun way to end it. Two things, no my prediction
is you will not be on hand because there’ll be an
emergency in your business and you know the somm life, and you’ll have to be there. So you’re gonna miss it. Sorry about that. And I think Henrik’s gonna go with Brazilian sparkling wine. I know that’s a left field kind of thing, but I’m very bullish on the Brazilian
sparkling wine phenomenon. I also find Henrik
extremely attractive which is Henrik married? Can somebody check? I don’t think he is, right? Can you Google that real quick before I get myself in trouble here? But I can punchline this last answer because I think if Henrik is single, I find myself believing that
he’s spending time in Brazil and having fun where he discovered
Brazilian sparkling wine and that is why he is
drinking it from the Cup. You would have been there. You were supposed to be there. – [Steve] Yeah, he’s definitely married. – He’s married, cool. So, the different rationale
to why he discovered his dear friends who are Brazilians introduced the sparkling wine to him, and that’s why he’s gonna do it. The reason I wanted to say that is I really do believe
Brazilian sparkling wine over the next 20, 30 years is
a very interesting category that nobody’s talking
about in the wine world. Episode 160,